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	<title>Comments for Contaminations</title>
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	<description>Philosophies of history</description>
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		<title>Comment on Seven days with Agamben: V by Drew</title>
		<link>http://contaminations.wordpress.com/2008/05/20/seven-days-with-agamben-v/#comment-476</link>
		<dc:creator>Drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 02:23:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://contaminations.wordpress.com/?p=16#comment-476</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I got delayed.  I still want to get back to it, but wanted to do some reading around it before I finished it off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I got delayed.  I still want to get back to it, but wanted to do some reading around it before I finished it off.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Seven days with Agamben: V by yaaqoob</title>
		<link>http://contaminations.wordpress.com/2008/05/20/seven-days-with-agamben-v/#comment-475</link>
		<dc:creator>yaaqoob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Dec 2009 18:34:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://contaminations.wordpress.com/?p=16#comment-475</guid>
		<description>what happened to the last day and the threshold?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>what happened to the last day and the threshold?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Who to trust on deconstruction and history, and why? by Drew</title>
		<link>http://contaminations.wordpress.com/2009/10/20/who-to-trust-on-deconstruction-and-history-and-why/#comment-429</link>
		<dc:creator>Drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 23:40:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://contaminations.wordpress.com/?p=112#comment-429</guid>
		<description>Thanks Carl, that&#039;s a really very helpful comment.  I appreciate it because I &lt;i&gt;don&#039;t&lt;/i&gt; want to scold, or heap up misreadings and click my tongue.  

Much more interesting for me are, I think, essential reasons for why historians (and others) were &lt;i&gt;never&lt;/i&gt; going to read Derrida well.  I want to raise an appropriate level of tension over the issue as an historical problem, not a problem of present practice... a fine line to walk I think. I&#039;ll post more on this as I work on my paper, but there are clearly exceptions to this tension (eg. Kerwin Lee Klein), but they are clearly &lt;i&gt;exceptions&lt;/i&gt; and very interesting in and of themselves.   

It&#039;s a good point about whether Derrida is original on history.  Once you sort through his style, sometimes his ideas do not seem all so revolutionary.  But, against this, there is some interesting work of Marian Hobson&#039;s that argues that his style &lt;i&gt;cannot&lt;/i&gt; be divorced from his ideas so easily.  So this needs to be considered.

&lt;i&gt;Is Derrida essential reading?&lt;/i&gt;   Good question.  I&#039;d probably actually say no, and what I would argue against is the way in which conventional narratives of the thing called &quot;the linguistic turn&quot; would suggest that he is, and that he could be easily incorporated into such a narrative.

I&#039;ve got more to say on LaCapra, but I&#039;ll stick this in a new post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Carl, that&#8217;s a really very helpful comment.  I appreciate it because I <i>don&#8217;t</i> want to scold, or heap up misreadings and click my tongue.  </p>
<p>Much more interesting for me are, I think, essential reasons for why historians (and others) were <i>never</i> going to read Derrida well.  I want to raise an appropriate level of tension over the issue as an historical problem, not a problem of present practice&#8230; a fine line to walk I think. I&#8217;ll post more on this as I work on my paper, but there are clearly exceptions to this tension (eg. Kerwin Lee Klein), but they are clearly <i>exceptions</i> and very interesting in and of themselves.   </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a good point about whether Derrida is original on history.  Once you sort through his style, sometimes his ideas do not seem all so revolutionary.  But, against this, there is some interesting work of Marian Hobson&#8217;s that argues that his style <i>cannot</i> be divorced from his ideas so easily.  So this needs to be considered.</p>
<p><i>Is Derrida essential reading?</i>   Good question.  I&#8217;d probably actually say no, and what I would argue against is the way in which conventional narratives of the thing called &#8220;the linguistic turn&#8221; would suggest that he is, and that he could be easily incorporated into such a narrative.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve got more to say on LaCapra, but I&#8217;ll stick this in a new post.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Who to trust on deconstruction and history, and why? by Carl</title>
		<link>http://contaminations.wordpress.com/2009/10/20/who-to-trust-on-deconstruction-and-history-and-why/#comment-428</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 18:03:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://contaminations.wordpress.com/?p=112#comment-428</guid>
		<description>Yes you are; it might be that we deserve it, and it could certainly spark an interesting reaction. I don&#039;t think, though, that yours will be the first scold your audience has heard that historians should eat their theoretical spinach....

Bourdieu talks about &#039;the international arms race of ideas&#039; as a framework for understanding how and why ideas are picked up or not, suggesting that we need to look at more than the conceptual value of ideas to understand their reception. Is Derrida essential reading? If so why, and for what? Is he the only or best way to get at what he gets at? If it&#039;s just a matter of the historicity and instability of identity, Americans can get that from G.H. Mead and symbolic interactionism (not that they do) without wading through Derrida&#039;s (to us) turgid prose.

I&#039;m surprised a bit by your finding in History and Theory; when I was in grad school in the 80s Derrida was a big part of the &#039;linguistic turn&#039; in intellectual history championed by LaCapra et. al. Of course there&#039;s an elective affinity between European high theory like Derrida and intellectual historians of European high theory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes you are; it might be that we deserve it, and it could certainly spark an interesting reaction. I don&#8217;t think, though, that yours will be the first scold your audience has heard that historians should eat their theoretical spinach&#8230;.</p>
<p>Bourdieu talks about &#8216;the international arms race of ideas&#8217; as a framework for understanding how and why ideas are picked up or not, suggesting that we need to look at more than the conceptual value of ideas to understand their reception. Is Derrida essential reading? If so why, and for what? Is he the only or best way to get at what he gets at? If it&#8217;s just a matter of the historicity and instability of identity, Americans can get that from G.H. Mead and symbolic interactionism (not that they do) without wading through Derrida&#8217;s (to us) turgid prose.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m surprised a bit by your finding in History and Theory; when I was in grad school in the 80s Derrida was a big part of the &#8216;linguistic turn&#8217; in intellectual history championed by LaCapra et. al. Of course there&#8217;s an elective affinity between European high theory like Derrida and intellectual historians of European high theory.</p>
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		<title>Comment on About this blog by atma</title>
		<link>http://contaminations.wordpress.com/about-this-blog/#comment-304</link>
		<dc:creator>atma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 01:58:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://contaminations.wordpress.com/about-this-blog/#comment-304</guid>
		<description>hi drew ! 
nice to see your blog. 
i also interested in Derrida thought, 
specially after i read &quot;Force of Law&quot;. 
I used that article to be my small thesis last year.

as Phd candidate, do you have some e-book (the free one)
from Derrida, especially from his early writing.

tks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi drew !<br />
nice to see your blog.<br />
i also interested in Derrida thought,<br />
specially after i read &#8220;Force of Law&#8221;.<br />
I used that article to be my small thesis last year.</p>
<p>as Phd candidate, do you have some e-book (the free one)<br />
from Derrida, especially from his early writing.</p>
<p>tks.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Review of French Theory by Ethan Kleinberg</title>
		<link>http://contaminations.wordpress.com/2008/09/19/review-of-french-theory/#comment-231</link>
		<dc:creator>Ethan Kleinberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 00:12:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://contaminations.wordpress.com/?p=48#comment-231</guid>
		<description>No apologies necessary. I appreciate the discussion and the criticisms. To my mind it moves the discourse in productive ways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No apologies necessary. I appreciate the discussion and the criticisms. To my mind it moves the discourse in productive ways.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Notes on historicity by Drew</title>
		<link>http://contaminations.wordpress.com/2008/10/02/notes-on-historicity/#comment-230</link>
		<dc:creator>Drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 22:50:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://contaminations.wordpress.com/?p=51#comment-230</guid>
		<description>Hi Duncan, thanks for the comment.  Yeah, I think you&#039;ve hit it on the head here.  Both Derrida and Foucault occasionally have a go at &#039;historians of ideas&#039;... but I don&#039;t think this is unusual for the context they are writing in.  It only is once you bring it all across into a US/English context.  

And just a few pages later in WD, Derrida does say, &#039;well actually, it&#039;s necessary to treat structuralism as an historical object...&#039;  It&#039;s always a dialectical, always a &#039;trembling&#039;, never an outright rejection.

The opposition to a &#039;systems of thought&#039; argument - and the essay on Foucault is brilliant on this, isn&#039;t it? - is precisely where Ricoeur is quite interesting.  Ricoeur, as far as I have gathered for the moment, is about conflicting and opposing, but complementary and necessary approaches.  Thus &#039;system&#039; and &#039;singularity&#039; - and it would seem that Derrida does the same thing, but in a hyper-dialectical way.  Emphasises the systemic nature (eg. the unity of the history of metaphysics), only to confront it with rupture, singularity, event.  

Derrida, to my knowledge, never writes on Ricoeur directly, but cites him approvingly in his Husserlian writings.  Which is interesting in itself, because often he spends a fair amount of time distancing himself from the French reading of Husserl.

I&#039;ll put on some material on Ricoeur soon... most of what I have been looking at, at the moment, is his earlier work - particularly the volume &lt;i&gt;History and Truth&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Duncan, thanks for the comment.  Yeah, I think you&#8217;ve hit it on the head here.  Both Derrida and Foucault occasionally have a go at &#8216;historians of ideas&#8217;&#8230; but I don&#8217;t think this is unusual for the context they are writing in.  It only is once you bring it all across into a US/English context.  </p>
<p>And just a few pages later in WD, Derrida does say, &#8216;well actually, it&#8217;s necessary to treat structuralism as an historical object&#8230;&#8217;  It&#8217;s always a dialectical, always a &#8216;trembling&#8217;, never an outright rejection.</p>
<p>The opposition to a &#8217;systems of thought&#8217; argument &#8211; and the essay on Foucault is brilliant on this, isn&#8217;t it? &#8211; is precisely where Ricoeur is quite interesting.  Ricoeur, as far as I have gathered for the moment, is about conflicting and opposing, but complementary and necessary approaches.  Thus &#8217;system&#8217; and &#8217;singularity&#8217; &#8211; and it would seem that Derrida does the same thing, but in a hyper-dialectical way.  Emphasises the systemic nature (eg. the unity of the history of metaphysics), only to confront it with rupture, singularity, event.  </p>
<p>Derrida, to my knowledge, never writes on Ricoeur directly, but cites him approvingly in his Husserlian writings.  Which is interesting in itself, because often he spends a fair amount of time distancing himself from the French reading of Husserl.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll put on some material on Ricoeur soon&#8230; most of what I have been looking at, at the moment, is his earlier work &#8211; particularly the volume <i>History and Truth</i></p>
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		<title>Comment on Review of French Theory by Drew</title>
		<link>http://contaminations.wordpress.com/2008/09/19/review-of-french-theory/#comment-229</link>
		<dc:creator>Drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 22:39:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://contaminations.wordpress.com/?p=48#comment-229</guid>
		<description>Dear Ethan, many thanks for stopping by, and thanks for narrowing the focus here.  My apologies, I collapsed the difference somewhat between Cusset&#039;s dialectic, and your logic of haunting. 

The reception of Derrida is a fascinating thing - and things happen not at all for the reasons that are commonly given - something like historiographic folklore.  It&#039;s proving, for me at least, a terribly fun area for the intersection between history and philosophy, and approaches to intellectual history.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Ethan, many thanks for stopping by, and thanks for narrowing the focus here.  My apologies, I collapsed the difference somewhat between Cusset&#8217;s dialectic, and your logic of haunting. </p>
<p>The reception of Derrida is a fascinating thing &#8211; and things happen not at all for the reasons that are commonly given &#8211; something like historiographic folklore.  It&#8217;s proving, for me at least, a terribly fun area for the intersection between history and philosophy, and approaches to intellectual history.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Review of French Theory by Ethan Kleinberg</title>
		<link>http://contaminations.wordpress.com/2008/09/19/review-of-french-theory/#comment-228</link>
		<dc:creator>Ethan Kleinberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 19:50:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://contaminations.wordpress.com/?p=48#comment-228</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the review review.  I guess I&#039;d like to suggest that my criticism of Cusset is focused on precisely the deployment of a logic of mastery of the text (&quot;more faithful appropriation&quot;) is at odds with what I see as some of the greatest gains achieved by &quot;French Theory.&quot; The Marx reference is not so much about the use of Marx but the ways that Cusset suggests Americans are not in a position to use/understand/deploy Marx as opposed to the French who are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the review review.  I guess I&#8217;d like to suggest that my criticism of Cusset is focused on precisely the deployment of a logic of mastery of the text (&#8220;more faithful appropriation&#8221;) is at odds with what I see as some of the greatest gains achieved by &#8220;French Theory.&#8221; The Marx reference is not so much about the use of Marx but the ways that Cusset suggests Americans are not in a position to use/understand/deploy Marx as opposed to the French who are.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Notes on historicity by praxis</title>
		<link>http://contaminations.wordpress.com/2008/10/02/notes-on-historicity/#comment-227</link>
		<dc:creator>praxis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 09:47:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://contaminations.wordpress.com/?p=51#comment-227</guid>
		<description>Hey Drew.  Way I look at it, Derrida is here more or less attacking the usual &#039;history of ideas&#039; - attacking the idea that a philosophical question or problematic can be made into an object of historical scrutiny - such philosophical non-objects exceed the historical, and are sort of a condition for it, I think Derrida would say.  If I remember right, this is the area in which the polemical exchange between Derrida and Foucault plays out - Derrida insisting that Descartes&#039; method can&#039;t be, say, reduced to a particular moment in the history of systems of thought, with Foucault insisting (more or less...) on its historically contingent character.  That would require a bit of finessing to be accurate.  :-)  Weird thing with Derrida, though - similar to Foucault - is that he sort of wants to have his cake and eat it; he wants to imply that historical contingency goes all the way down, while still preserving an unbreachable philosophical dignity that is, implicitly, trans-historical.  It comes down, I think, to a basic equivocation: is Derrida dealing with actual, you know, historically contingent systems of thought, when he talks about &#039;presence&#039; and such-like - systems of thought that would, presumably, connect to actual social and historical changes - or is he more operating in a quasi-Heideggerian space, talking about the destiny of Being and what have you?  Derrida wants to have it both ways, I think - and that philosophical mysticism is always potent enough, in his work, that I think Derrida&#039;s remarks about historicity generally require some careful handling.

I haven&#039;t read Ricoeur, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Drew.  Way I look at it, Derrida is here more or less attacking the usual &#8216;history of ideas&#8217; &#8211; attacking the idea that a philosophical question or problematic can be made into an object of historical scrutiny &#8211; such philosophical non-objects exceed the historical, and are sort of a condition for it, I think Derrida would say.  If I remember right, this is the area in which the polemical exchange between Derrida and Foucault plays out &#8211; Derrida insisting that Descartes&#8217; method can&#8217;t be, say, reduced to a particular moment in the history of systems of thought, with Foucault insisting (more or less&#8230;) on its historically contingent character.  That would require a bit of finessing to be accurate.  <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />   Weird thing with Derrida, though &#8211; similar to Foucault &#8211; is that he sort of wants to have his cake and eat it; he wants to imply that historical contingency goes all the way down, while still preserving an unbreachable philosophical dignity that is, implicitly, trans-historical.  It comes down, I think, to a basic equivocation: is Derrida dealing with actual, you know, historically contingent systems of thought, when he talks about &#8216;presence&#8217; and such-like &#8211; systems of thought that would, presumably, connect to actual social and historical changes &#8211; or is he more operating in a quasi-Heideggerian space, talking about the destiny of Being and what have you?  Derrida wants to have it both ways, I think &#8211; and that philosophical mysticism is always potent enough, in his work, that I think Derrida&#8217;s remarks about historicity generally require some careful handling.</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t read Ricoeur, though.</p>
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